Forever Neil: Film & Fuel
By Jaan Uhelszki
Neil Young has a 24-track mind, turned on all the time. There's always a restless bevy of endeavors in simultaneous states of planning and completion, each of immediate importance and constant excitement. On this Midsummer Day in the northern California redwoods not far from the Pacific Ocean, Young is in the role of both director and inventor. At once. The film CSNY: Déjà Vu is on the eve of its U.S. release, a document of the band's 2006 Freedom of Speech tour that took political expression into new territory. Then there's Linc-Volt, where Young and his merry band of mechanical innovators are busy taking apart the very concept of what the future of fuel will be, starting with his 1959 Lincoln Continental retooled to travel 100 miles per gallon. Behind Terminator shades and a half smile, Young discourses on his efforts with an energy and passion that does not stop, pushing away at every edge he can find and building the ways to get beyond them.
Sonic Boomers: Did the idea for the film come from the same impulse that inspired the album Living With War?
Neil Young: Well, when the record came out and then we got the reaction that we got for it, which was kind of violently good and violently bad at the same time, and personally attacking and personally praising. I figured it'd be interesting to take it on the road, but I didn't know who to take it on the road with. I wanted to do it in a way that it would have the most impact. I could choose who I was working with, so I chose Crosby, Stills, and Nash, because they have a history of doing this kind of thing, what with "Ohio," Military Madness," "For What It's Worth," Déjà vu," "Long Time Gone," "Teach Your Children," and all those. So it would have a lot of roots. When I was making the videos for the record I became acquainted with Mike Cerre, and I asked him if he would like to come on the road and embed with us on a tour, since he was an embedded correspondent in Iraq.
SB: It's such a bizarre word, because I've never heard embed before seeing it in the film. He was a war correspondent for a network?
NY: He's a freelance journalist. He came to me. Well, I don't recall exactly how it started but we wanted original video from Iraq and he had some. He'd heard Living With War, and wanted to do a special for MSNBC or CNN or somebody, a half-hour special on the war and the music, and what the troops thought, etc., because he's been to Iraq five times. I said to him, "Listen, I don't want to do that TV show, but why don't you come with us and we'll make a movie? You bring your cameras. We'll shoot the music and you shoot the documentary, and then we'll give you the music. And you'll cut together ten episodes for me. And than after that I'm going to take those and I'm going to do whatever I want with them."
SB: He was okay with that?
NY: Yes.
SB: Did you have a narrative arc in mind? Or did that reveal itself as you worked?
NY: The problem really was that I wanted to do two things. I wanted to have a result, and I wanted to use a method. The result I was looking for was dialogue. Make it so people talk to each other. Try to find people talking to each other, film that. Have the soldiers there, and find out what do they think. What do the soldiers' mothers think, what does the band think, what does the audience think? Put it all together, see if it stimulates anything else and really film it, and then see what happens. Do a documentary about that, around the music. Let the music roll through it but not be the central thing. The method was to start with it being the music and end with it being something else. So you started thinking you were going to see one thing-and you get that at first. You think, right, this is what I thought it would be. And then at one point when that guy makes his home movie about the war, and everything turns around. After that you're going, "Wait a minute, this is not what I thought this was going to be. It's not a little concert film."
SB: Some of the interviews were so gripping and painful to watch. It was much more real than I envisioned, the suffering that you don't see on the news. At any point, did you find yourself crying?
NY: It is emotional. People don't have to be emotionally involved. That's a very emotional picture.
SB: You have lowered your guard a little. You've always been so remote and really detached, but here you are hugging wounded veterans on film. What gives?
NY: I don't know. I just got caught up with telling the story. You have to tell the story. That's what happened. And that's what happens when you let people film everything. Then you're going to catch those moments. And if you have those moments, they're part of the story so you use them. There's really no thinking about it. There was none when I hugged them.
SB: But you weren't always this forthcoming. It's like you've taken off a layer.
NY: Well, you know, I think that you have to. You gotta get there, and eventually you gotta let it out. Well, it's just taking me a long time, but it's coming.
SB: You know what also struck me: all the reviews that you quoted throughout the movie we always the negative one.
NY: Well, on the website, on the Living With War Today pages, we had the pros and cons. So we collected them all. I thought that the cons were very interesting. They were so revealing of the humanity of the people who wrote them and we couldn't possibly ignore them. They were just totally great and they were just so energized, and likewise the pros. I mean thank God that there were more pros than there were cons. But we used a lot of the cons because it doesn't look like there were that many more pros than the cons.
SB: Did you feel that the footage of Iraq and the interviews with the people were the most compelling evidence for what you were trying to put across. The idea of Freedom of Speech, which was the name of this tour.
NY: Yeah. It speaks for itself. I'm really into letting people create the environment of something by themselves, just taking it all and trying to represent both sides, or as many sides as there are. In this story there are multiple sides, but there're two main sides: those who were for the war, and those who were against it. I just wanted to represent it so that people don't feel like they've been left out. So that everybody can talk about it and they're not going to say, "That movie is just liberal bullshit. The work of a bleeding heart liberal." I've heard it before, and it bores the hell out of me. I really need to have it be a mirror of what was out there. And I think it is.
SB: Were you surprised how outraged the crowd was in Atlanta? While you played there, and afterwards when you looked at the footage?
NY: Oh, that was scary, during and after.
SB: The soccer mom giving the camera an aggressive finger is unforgettable.
NY: Awful. She was really into it. Maybe she had people who died in the military in her family. I don't know. But I respect her right to say what she feels and to have her own feelings. Probably deep-seated, so I don't judge her. I just wanted to give her a voice.
SB: You certainly gave Stephen Stills his voice. Since he is a Texan and from a military family himself, I didn't see him supporting a Democratic candidate. And at first, he was the most resistant of CSN about joining you on this tour.
NY: Well, despite his exterior, Stephen doesn't like people not to like him. He's much more sensitive than you'd think. He's great. He's a very important part of the movie. He's the most articulate one of all of us. He speaks the best and he has the most depth.
SB: He shows his human side more than anyone else in this film, not only by what he says, but when he fell onstage. It must have been humiliating for him, but you chose to put it in the film. Why?
NY: It's not as if I didn't warn him. I showed it to him and he seemed okay with it. I mean, the more uncool we were, the more real we seemed. And we were very real. I'm more myself with these guys than I am with anyone. We've had forty years to perfect that.
SB: You were so driven to make the Living With War album, and this film. Why did this speak to you more than other things, like Desert Storm?
NY: Desert Storm made more sense to me. Saddam invaded Kuwait. People were killed and all kinds of things happened. And it's dirty over there, and we're involved in dirty ways. But this was pretty straight ahead. And the elder Bush had the brains to not go too far. A lot more intelligence. So this war was more like the Vietnam war. It started, but you couldn't tell why.
SB: You said something about seeing footage about medical procedures that were being advanced because of the extreme need to attend to wounds associated with the war and that galvanized you.
NY: USA Today covered it.
SB: That seems akin to when you saw the fallen students at Kent State on the cover of Life Magazine in 1971 that inspired you to write "Ohio."
NY: Exactly. It was like, "Let me just do it." So I did. This one is all about humans. It's very human. It's your age-old human problem. War is just fighting animals. We've been doing this for a long time and we've honed it down. What we really need to do though is eliminate the need, the cause. People really don't want to have wars, but they feel they have to because of what they've done, because of what they've seen, how they've been treated. Whatever the history is involved with the war. There's always something going on. The cause of this one is energy.
SB: Do you think your film will help end the war?
NY: Ideally, we do want to end the war. I just am pragmatic, and this war has a cause. The cause of the war is energy. So that's what my program is now. I've reacted to the war and wrote these songs, and it stimulated a conversation but it's not going to end the war. It's not going to do anything like that. So I think people should start focusing on a solution, and a cause, and how to eliminate the root causes of war and the energy problem. That's why I am doing my thing building the Linc-Volt car, because it's an illustration of what we can do. And I'm not the only one who feels this way. A lot of other people feel this way. I'm just one of a crowd of people, but I'm going to do it, because I think it can make more difference than any song I'm going to write.
SB: I guess this is the real Chrome Dream.
NY: You said it, not me.
SB: Do you find it hard to write songs that aren't going to spike awareness, make a difference right now?
NY: You know, I don't think about it. I haven't had an idea to write a song-I've written melodies-for a while. So little tidbits come in and out, but until I get inspired by something, I won't write anything. When I do get inspired, then I will.
SB: You said that after the Greendale album it took you two years to write anything.
NY: It was a while. And I feel that way now. I just feel like, "Hey, it'll come." And when it comes I'll be ready, and I'll drop everything else I'm doing to do it.
SB: We've talked a lot about your creativity in the past, and I wonder if you've always thought that another song was going to show up? Have you always had faith in that process?
NY: Well, it always has showed up, so, and I just respect it. I think if they come in big groups, I'll try to get ‘em all. One shows up, I'll try to get it. I won't ignore any but I'm not going to go looking for it. I don't have time to find them. So a song has to knock on the door and say, "Here I am." But I got my eyes open, so when it happens, it happens. I'll be there.
SB: I know people have asked you this a lot, although I still think it's a valid question: Is the person who makes the films any different than the person who writes the songs?
NY: The songwriter thinks, but there's more thinking that goes into movies. I'm always making songs-- it's an instant gratification. The song is there. It's really something that you can express, it's a performance. You sing it and you play it, and the words come out, and an illusion is created of some sort. But a movie's not anything like that. It's much more organized. You have to have a plan. You have to have an idea that's worth spending money on. You really have to think far down the road.
SB: Does it surprise you that you have the skills to do a movie?
NY: I've always wanted to do movies. Through the years I have gotten slowly but surely more skilled at it, and so now I can take on something like this. Taking the subject on wasn't easy. I was constantly distracted by my own stylistic diversions and things that I did that didn't work. I just stood by them for a long time and then I'd drop them. In the editing process I did all kinds of things, because I wanted to do a big thing on the media, and then I've stayed kind of away from that kind of exposure. There was a lot of back and forth with this thing.
SB: But in the end you revealed yourself. I keep coming back to you hugging those guys. Neil Young is not a hugger.
NY: Yeah. Well, this is the real thing. And there's no pretense stuff. This is what it is, and revealing the real life and death situations, and singing about them. So there's nothing that I should hold back. It's not even an artistic thing. It's just more of a journalistic look at the world. So I guess there's some distance in that.
SB: What did you learn by making this, and what did you learn about yourself by making this?
NY: Well, first off, I don't think I'd ever do it again. I don't think I would do a political statement thing like this about a war. I've made my statement not only about this war but about all wars with this one. So going out into a public forum and speaking about politics and war and matters on that level is something that I won't attempt again. Creating a process like that and going out and doing a tour like that, I don't think I'd ever do that again, either. I think I would reserve the touring space for music not to further some idea. I think that was a very rare instance for me. I don't think I would be inclined to repeat it. Although anything can happen. I've learned that. But I was so exhausted and so burned out that I actually went to Hawaii for three months, and just stayed there. Just stayed there for three months trying to wash myself off.
SB: You put so much into those shows. I saw you in Concord, California and you played like a demon spirit, playing aggressively and shredding wildly like a young man. You and Stephen Stills.
NY: Yeah, we do great together. We love playing together.
SB: You talked a lot about the relationship that you have with them and why you chose to mount the Free Speech Tour with CSN. Did you worry that old wounds would come back to haunt you? Old spats?
NY: We've always loved each other. We always had fun, and we've always fought. And we're just older now, and we don't do any of those things as much, but we still love each other.
SB: Can you fight with the people that you're close to?
NY: We have disagreements and we have arguments, but we love each other. We've been together for so long, we've been through so many things, this history. And I'm sure there'll be another CSN&Y tour.
SB: Was there ever a moment you thought about using Crazy Horse because they're so much more of an aggressive outfit and some of the songs were so forceful.
NY: Crazy Horse would not fit with this music. Well, maybe one song they'd have been okay. But that feeling comes from another place inside; just wasn't going there.
SB: If you wouldn't do this again, are there other films you want to make?
NY: I wouldn't do the tour again. The tour was what I'm saying I wouldn't do again. Wouldn't go out in public and do that again. That was like dangerous and I don't think I need to do it.
SB: Because you expended so much energy or something else?
NY: Expended a lot of energy, and I hurt myself during the tour. I had to recover from that. And I was just anxious. There were bomb-sniffing dogs, and going in my room, looking behind the curtains and into the bathrooms at the hotels. Drives you crazy after a while.
SB: I wasn't aware that it was that bad.
NY: You see the movie, and you can tell why.
SB: Did you have the bomb-sniffing dogs around as a precaution right off the bat, or was there some incident that required it.
NY: I don't know where they came from, but they showed up and they were there with us all the time. So for a sound check, maybe going through the whole place, under every seat, checking every seat.
SB: There's a line in one of your songs about the restless consumer, but I always see you as like a restless creator. You talked about going to Hawaii for three months. Can you chill? Or do you work when you're there?
NY: That was the last time I really chilled. I'm gonna chill again, but I've got a lot of things here. I think at the end of this year I'm going to chill. I would hope sometime soon, although when I talk about this year I think I mean one year from now.
SB: You're about to leave on a European tour.
NY: I've got European stuff going on. And just a lot of things going on. Making the movie about the car. We're going to Wixom, we're going back to cruise through the factory where they used to make Lincolns. Right now the car is in Wichita, Kansas. I was driving it last week, under electric power, 70 miles an hour. It's unbelievable. You can hear other cars coming on the pike, on the freeway. You can hear just a normal car coming. You can hear the engine. Cars make a lot of noise when they're going 60, 70 miles an hour, but this car makes less noise than all the other ones. You just hear wind. It's really, really clean. That's a beautiful feeling.
SB: What are you calling the movie?
NY: Linc-Volt. That's what the car is called. It's a Lincoln powered by electricity and bio fuels and possibly by water.
SB: Can it run on hydrogen?
NY: It won't eat it. The whole goal of this car is clearly to eliminate roadside refueling. So hydrogen is not a solution. Anything that we still need the gas station for perpetuates the same problem. Because as long as you have to go to the distributor, then they're going to be selling you their stuff. You're going to have cars that use half gasoline and half hydrogen. You're going to have all these things, reasons why you still have to buy gas. Don't go there. You don't have to. Then your car powers your house when you get home, and the car is the grid after it's finished powering your house, and everything that you need, the car can do it. You can put it in your basement and you could heat your house with it. You could power your house and the excess would go out into the grid. All of that way of thinking, distributed power sources instead of power plants with tentacles going out. You would have distributed power sources everywhere going in, where everything charges everything else. Everything works out. Everybody's house is charging the grid. Everybody's car plugs in and charges the grid. It's not to take energy from the grid, it's to put energy into the grid.
SB: Because you generate it when you're driving?
NY: You generate it with a generator, and the generator runs clean enough. Then you can charge up the batteries, and it takes a lot more energy to run a car than it does to power your house.
SB: Has this always concerned you? I mean you live in a very remote area, so the idea of self-sufficiency has probably always been preeminent for you.
NY: Yeah. I've always wanted something like this. In the back of my mind I've always thought that I was a builder and the music was just kind of a hobby. But I've never really been able to get a handle on that. I've built buildings and I love building buildings. I've built a wacky house and I've got studios and I design things. I've designed a house, and here and there did build things. I love working with carpenters and watching them build things. I love drawing things and seeing them come to life. But really, the real challenge is the energy. So to create a system that enables cars to move around and houses to be powered without using the coal-powered plants and without using the oil. Cleaning the energy, cleaning the planet and eliminating the need for a war.
SB: You're really lucky you're getting to do what you love now. Was the music always the vehicle for your dreams?
NY: That really seems to be happening, doesn't it? My mom always told me I was an architect. She said, "I know you're going to be an architect. I know that's what you are because when you were just a kid, all you would do was build things." I got my building blocks, got so many building blocks and I was building all these structures, and ways you get in and out, and then building big sandcastles on the beach. Trying to figure out how to catch the water, and make the water stay. Then trying to make the water do things. How it would be replenished, keeping things that would never go away when the source would come and go. This was the kind of stuff that I was thinking about even when I was a little kid. Not much has changed. What I'm doing now at this point, it's along those lines. I looked at everything like it has to do with energy. Breathing: you breathe in, you breathe out.
SB: Is there still a collaboration with Crazy Horse in your future?
NY: Well, you know, there is, somewhere out there. They have to be together before I can be together with them. They haven't been doing anything together. They need to be able to do it. I don't have the time to support things. I have to go with things that are going to support me. But I think they can do it.
SB: Do feel more Canadian as time goes by?
NY: Yeah, I feel strangely Canadian.
SB: Would you ever consider giving up citizenship so you could run for office?
NY: No, because I'm a Canadian. I'm born Canadian. You know, you can't change some things. Nothing can change that. Like a piece of paper's not going to change that. So I'm not going to get that piece of paper, because it won't work. You can't become something that you're not just because it's convenient.
SB: What do you feel like your job is now? Is it the builder, or is there another job?
NY: One job that I have right now is that I want to play music. But the most important thing for me right now is creating, or trying to create an energy that can be used, that'll change things. And my goals are very lofty. I may never reach my goals, but I want to try to reach them. You can't get there unless you aim, unless you try to go there. That's important. So the goal of eliminating gas stations, roadside refueling, with some kind of fuels-- people's fuel--something that everybody has access to. And we're smart enough to figure it out. We'll figure it out.
SB: Do people come to you, like legislators, or big business, and want to align with you.
NY: Some people do, but I'm not really very good at that. I have to be totally into something myself. I can't just lend my name to something. There's a lot of great causes out there but I'm focused on what I'm obsessed with, because that's where I feel my energy is the best used.
SB: Well, you are a man of obsessions-monomania, really. Do you have a form of ADD?
NY: I probably do. I know I can't keep track of things for too long but some things I can't forget about.
SB: Are the Archives still on the schedule?
NY: Yeah, the Archives are. Now they have to have the technology to present this the way we've done it. We've created a new technology to listen to music, and we don't know if we can offer it commercially or not. But we're thinking about it. They're coming out this year. People should be able to look at it and the press should be able to see it in July. And it'll probably get to stores in October. But there's never been anything like it.
— 07/18/2008
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